From t89djo@student.tdb.uu.se Fri Jun 17 18:16:44 1994 Received: from vesicle.ibg.uu.se by receptor.ibg.uu.se via SMTP (931110.SGI/930416.SGI.AUTO) for david id AA16662; Fri, 17 Jun 94 18:16:44 +0200 Received: from albireo.tdb.uu.se by vesicle.ibg.uu.se via SMTP (931110.SGI/930416.SGI.AUTO) for david@receptor.ibg.uu.se id AA07046; Fri, 17 Jun 94 18:16:41 +0200 Received: (from t89djo@localhost) by albireo.tdb.uu.se (8.6.8/8.6.6) id SAA10581 for david@vesicle.ibg.uu.se; Fri, 17 Jun 1994 18:15:47 +0200 Date: Fri, 17 Jun 1994 18:15:47 +0200 From: David Jonsson Message-Id: <199406171615.SAA10581@albireo.tdb.uu.se> To: david@vesicle Subject: (fwd) Re: The Philadelphia-Experiment Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories Reply-To: t89djo@student.tdb.uu.se Content-Type: text Content-Length: 24543 Status: RO Path: columba.udac.uu.se!sunic!EU.net!howland.reston.ans.net!europa.eng.gtefsd.com!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!zip.eecs.umich.edu!panix!not-for-mail From: binesh@panix.com (Binesh Bannerjee) Newsgroups: alt.sci.physics.new-theories Subject: Re: The Philadelphia-Experiment Date: 17 Jun 1994 09:42:02 -0400 Organization: PANIX Public Access Internet and Unix, NYC Lines: 512 Message-ID: <2ts97a$1qb@panix.com> References: <15@micromedia.win-uk.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Volker Everts (micmed@micromedia.win-uk.net) wrote: : I'm an editor/writer and currently doing : research in the fields of scientific research : and experiments of the US Navy and Airforce in : World War II. : 1. Does anybody have informations about the : so-called "Philadelphia-Experiment" of the US : Navy in 1944? The objective of that experiment : was to find a way of making ships "invisible" : for radar devices via electromagnetic shields. : According to some sources the experiment on : board a US vessel failed, thus resulting in loss : of most of the crew and in an actual : "transistion" of the vessel. Well, I have a file on this, which I'll attach here, but for the second question, you might want to rummage through ftp.rutgers.edu in /pub/ufo and you might find what you're looking for... Begin Quoted Text: > From psmith@dg-webo.rtp.dg.com (Peter Smith) Thu Jan 9 13:11:27 1992 > Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!paul.rutgers.edu!dorm.rutgers.edu!rutgers!ub!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!psinntp!dg-rtp!webo!dg-webo!psmith > From: psmith@dg-webo.rtp.dg.com (Peter Smith) > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > Subject: Re: Philadelphia Experiment > Message-ID: <1992Jan9.181127.29251@webo.dg.com> > Date: 9 Jan 92 18:11:27 GMT > References: <3370@ixgch.uucp> > Sender: usenet@webo.dg.com (Usenet Administration) > Distribution: alt > Organization: Data General Corporation, Westboro, MA > Lines: 32 > > In article <3370@ixgch.uucp> chris@ixgch.imp.com (Christoph Eckert) writes: > > > >i'm looking for any kind of information about the so-called > > "Philadelphia Experiment", > > The Philidelphia Experiment story of a ship and its crew disappearing or > demterializing seems to trace back to one Carl Allen, a sailor stationed > at the Philadelphia Navy Yard during WWII and A.A. Merritt, who's > _American_Weekly_ dealt heavily in the paranormal. > > Allen appears to have consolidated several rumor threads current at the > Navy Yard concerning the activities in a sealed-off, top secret area > where large, electricity-hungry machines were installed on one or more > ships and shore-side buildings and visited by various scientists and > engineers, including Albert Einstein. The Navy's rumor-control cover > story was that they were experimenting with de-gaussing equipment to > make ships undetectable to magnetic mines. Most rumors around the base > speculated that they were trying to make ships radar-proof, or even > invisible. After the war, it was revealed that the installation was > part of the Manhattan Project, and contained cyclotrons and cloud > chambers. > > Allen clung to the old rumors, however, and wove in the story of the > merchant ship Mohecan, which had a strange encounter with a "magnetic > cloud" in the Bermuda Triangle. Merritt published an embellished > recounting of the Mohecan's bizzarre episode which Allen read and saw as > tied to the Navy Yard rumors and began writing to all sorts of > publications about "The Philadelphia Experiment", which since attained > urban-legend status akin to Flight 19. > --- > Peter Smith (Peter_Smith@dgc.ceo.dg.com) Data General Corp, Westboro, MA > #include > > From jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Thu Jan 9 13:45:15 1992 > Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!rutgers!cbmvax!vanth!jms > From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > Subject: Re: Philadelphia Experiment? > Message-ID: > Date: 9 Jan 92 18:45:15 GMT > References: <3370@ixgch.uucp> <1992Jan08.013037.1224@pfm.rmt.sub.org> <30511@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> > Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence > Lines: 24 > > In article <30511@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> hartlemp@mentor.cc.purdue.edu (Michael P. Hartley) writes: > >beleive it was the Battleship Idaho, disapeared from the radar screens. In fact > >the entire ship vanished from visible sight. A few minutes later, the ship reappeared, and they turned off the generators. Then the ship, and the crew even > >after they left the ship, continued to disappear and reappear at random > >intervals for several years. > > In all the versions I've heard, except one mentioned briefly in Moore & > Berlitz's book, it was the destroyer escort "Eldridge". (I can't remember > the one mentioned, but it definitely wasn't the "Idaho". The story is that > someone said that the names of the Eldridge and the other ship were > switched afterwards to throw people off the trail.) > > > An interesting sideline is that the Idaho currently is in mothballs, and it > >never saw action in WWII. (I think I heard that somewhere. This is all very > >hush hush, so I am just repeating heavily biased rumors.) > > The Eldridge was sold to Greece (minus quite a bit of unidentified weight!) > where it was renamed the Leon. I think it's still in service. > > -- > * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | I'm in a groove now > Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | -- or is it a rut? > 37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | > Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Rush, "Face Up") > > From sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) Fri Jan 10 19:20:31 1992 > Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!paul.rutgers.edu!dorm.rutgers.edu!rutgers!apple!netcomsv!sheaffer > From: sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > Subject: Re: Philadelphia Experiment? > Message-ID: <1992Jan11.002031.7380sheaffer@netcom.COM> > Date: 11 Jan 92 00:20:31 GMT > References: <3370@ixgch.uucp> <6JAN199218113406@utkvx3.utk.edu> > Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) > Lines: 67 > > OK, I went digging in my files, and uncovered an article from FATE magazine, > Oct. 1980 by Robert A. Goerman, called "Alias Carlos Allende". Summarizing > what it says: > > "In 1955 a Washington, DC auto parts salesman named Morris K. Jessup, who > once did graduate work in astronomy at the University of Michigan, wrote > a book titled "The Case for the UFO" and embarked on a tour to promote it.... > > In 1956, "Jessup received a letter from one Carlos Miguel Allende .... (it) > scolded Jessup for suggesting continued research into UFT (Unified Field > Theory). Allende claimed that in October 1943 the United States navy had > used Einstein's theories in an experiment that not only rendered a destroyer > totally invisible but also caused it to be teleported from the Philadelphia > dock to the Norfolk News-Portsmouth area and back again in a matter of > minutes. The experiment succeeded but it left side effects so horrendous > that the navy shut down the project immediately..... > > (in a later letter) "Allende, his name now anglicized to Carl M. Allen, > could recall no exact dates, either for the experiment or for news accounts; > nor could he remember the names of the crew members or anything else > that mattered...." > > Later, someone at the Office of Naval research in Washington turned up a > copy of Jessup's UFO book that had been "annotated", apparently by three > different persons, "Mr. A", "Mr. B", and "Jemi". "The writers made little > effort to conceal their contempt for mere human beings. Jessup > immediately recognized the handwriting, with its bizarre spelling, > capitalization and punctuation, as that of his mysterious correspondant > Carl(os) Allen(de)... the three writers continually referred to that > secret 1943 naval experiment." > > "On April 20, 1959, Jessup committed suicide." > > Late in the summer of 1969, the Aerial Phenomena Research Organization > (APRO) wrote that Allen(de) "had dropped into its Tucson, Ariz. office > and confessed the whole thing was a hoax." But Allen(de) later > apparently recanted this confession. > > Allen's letters carried the return address of a house in New Kensington, > PA, the author's home town, so he investigated. > > "I learned the whereabouts of all three of Allen(de)'s brothers." He also > located Carl's father, turned out to be his neighbor. Goerman was given > full access to papers that the family had. He concludes, "Carlos loves > to play games with those foolish enough to play audience... Carl is > described as a 'master leg-puller'. Once he purportedly feigned a heart > attack while working ... ". In a letter to his parents, Carl admits > annotating Jessup's book, by himself. > > "In his letters to Jessup, Carl does not mention the name or number > of his experimental ship. In Moore and Berlitz' book he states, "It > was the DE-173." > > "It is clear that the legend of Carl Allen/Carlos Allende is mostly > fiction. If someone were to write a book telling the *real* story, > its title might be 'The Philadelphia Hoax: Project Gullibility." > > > > -- > > Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com > > Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! > > "Simply follow nature, Rousseau declares. Sade, laughing, > grimly agrees." - Camille Paglia, "Sexual Personae" > > From jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Fri Jan 10 15:43:42 1992 > Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!rutgers!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms > From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > Subject: Re: Philadelphia Experiment > Message-ID: > Date: 10 Jan 92 20:43:42 GMT > References: <1992Jan9.162108.8676@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> > Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence > Lines: 25 > > In article <1992Jan9.162108.8676@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> fec@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (f.e.carey) writes: > > > >Ivan Sanderson yalked about this incident in one of his books - probably > >in the sixties. I seem to recall that a marked up copy of the book was > >received in the mail by the Defense Department and promptly classified > >at a high level. > > Sanderson did talk about it, but the book that Allende marked up and mailed > to the Office of Naval Research was Jessup's first book, "The Case For The > UFO". The ONR didn't do anything with it *officially* as far as I know, > but several individuals in that office made a couple dozen copies of the > book. I don't know who they gave all the copies to. Jessup got at least > one, and he annotated the annotations. He gave this copy to someone known > to Sanderson (possibly Sanderson himself) with instructions to keep it > secret. I don't know if anyone knows what happened to it when Sanderson > died, if in fact Sanderson is the one who had it. Copies of Allende's > annotations, made from one of the extremely rare ONR copies, used to be > available from one UFOlogical publisher, but I don't know if they still > are. > > -- > * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | I'm in a groove now > Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | -- or is it a rut? > 37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | > Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Rush, "Face Up") > > From sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) Fri Jan 10 19:28:31 1992 > Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!rutgers!apple!netcomsv!sheaffer > From: sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > Subject: Re: Philadelphia Experiment > Keywords: Sanderson > Message-ID: <1992Jan11.002831.8708sheaffer@netcom.COM> > Date: 11 Jan 92 00:28:31 GMT > References: <1992Jan9.162108.8676@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> > Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) > Lines: 31 > > In article <1992Jan9.162108.8676@cbnewsl.cb.att.com> fec@cbnewsl.cb.att.com (f.e.carey) writes: > > > >Ivan Sanderson yalked about this incident in one of his books - probably > >in the sixties. I seem to recall that a marked up copy of the book was > >received in the mail by the Defense Department and promptly classified > >at a high level. > >Does anybody remember anything like this? > > Yes, this "Carlos Allende" character (a.k.a. Carl Allen) marked up a > copy of a wild UFO book by Morris K. Jessup, as if by three separate > extraterrestrials. It had comments like, "these puny earthlings are > getting too close to the secret of Unified Fields!", and other such > drivel. If I understand correctly, there was a corporation, probably a > defense contractor, called Varo, that for reasons I cannot fathom > printed up copies of the annotated book, which came to be known > as "the VARO Edition". I don't think that the thing was ever really > "classified", but *who knows* what the Pentagon might do when > somebody sends them something like that? In any case, for years > the late Gray Barker was selling "the Varo edition" at some > ridiculously high price (something like $75), hinting that it > contains great unearthly wisdom. Caveat emptor. > > > -- > > Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com > > Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! > > "Simply follow nature, Rousseau declares. Sade, laughing, > grimly agrees." - Camille Paglia, "Sexual Personae" > > From sys6626!inqmind!turtle@bison.mb.ca Mon Jan 13 04:25:30 1992 > Flags: 000000000001 > Received: from ccu.umanitoba.ca by aramis.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.4/3.08) > id AA20265; Mon, 13 Jan 92 04:25:27 EST > Received: from bison.UUCP by ccu.UManitoba.CA with UUCP > (4.1/25-eef) id AA14562; Mon, 13 Jan 92 03:25:19 CST > Received: by bison.mb.ca (1.64/waf) > via UUCP; Mon, 13 Jan 92 02:58:53 CST > for mcgrew@porthos.rutgers.edu > Received: by sys6626.bison.mb.ca (1.64/waf) > via UUCP; Mon, 13 Jan 92 02:28:51 CST > for mcgrew@porthos.rutgers.edu > Received: by inqmind.bison.mb.ca (1.64/waf) > via UUCP; Sun, 12 Jan 92 23:13:17 CST > for mcgrew@porthos.rutgers.edu > To: Charles > Subject: Re: Philadelphia Experiment? > From: turtle@inqmind.bison.mb.ca (Barry) > Message-Id: > Date: Sun, 12 Jan 92 23:13:16 CST > In-Reply-To: > Organization: The Inquiring Mind 1 204 488-1607 > > Charles writes: > > >Would have saved a ton of money on rocket research if we could just > >materialized H-bombs in Moscow :-) > > GOOD POINT!! > > --Barry > > turtle@inqmind.bison.mb.ca > The Inquiring Mind BBS, Winnipeg, Manitoba 204 488-1607 > > From mcgrew@cs.rutgers.edu Sun Jan 12 01:17:24 1992 > Flags: 000000000001 > Received: from porthos.rutgers.edu by aramis.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.4/3.08) > id AA25766; Sun, 12 Jan 92 01:17:23 EST > Received: by porthos.rutgers.edu (5.59/SMI4.0/RU1.4/3.08) > id AA16178; Sun, 12 Jan 92 01:17:21 EST > Date: Sun, 12 Jan 92 01:17:21 EST > From: mcgrew@cs.rutgers.edu > Message-Id: <9201120617.AA16178@porthos.rutgers.edu> > To: sheaffer@netcom.com > Cc: mcgrew@cs.rutgers.edu > Subject: Re: Philadelphia Experiment? > In-Reply-To: USENET article <1992Jan11.002031.7380sheaffer@netcom.COM> > > Hi, > > Just a quick note to compliment you on your brief (but thorough) > message to alt.alien.visitor. Nicely done! > > Thanks, > > Charles > > From jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Sun Jan 12 22:23:04 1992 > Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!rutgers!cbmvax!vanth!jms > From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > Subject: Re: Philadelphia Experiment? > Message-ID: > Date: 13 Jan 92 03:23:04 GMT > References: <3370@ixgch.uucp> <6JAN199218113406@utkvx3.utk.edu> <1992Jan11.002031.7380sheaffer@netcom.COM> > Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence > Lines: 47 > > In article <1992Jan11.002031.7380sheaffer@netcom.COM> sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) writes: > >Later, someone at the Office of Naval research in Washington turned up a > >copy of Jessup's UFO book that had been "annotated", apparently by three > >different persons, "Mr. A", "Mr. B", and "Jemi". "The writers made little > >effort to conceal their contempt for mere human beings. Jessup > >immediately recognized the handwriting, with its bizarre spelling, > >capitalization and punctuation, as that of his mysterious correspondant > >Carl(os) Allen(de)... the three writers continually referred to that > >secret 1943 naval experiment." > > Moore & Berlitz only say that it was mentioned a few times in the > annotations. Of course, they also let out the part about the writers > supposedly being aliens, if that's what they're supposed to be. > > >Allen's letters carried the return address of a house in New Kensington, > >PA, the author's home town, so he investigated. > > > >"I learned the whereabouts of all three of Allen(de)'s brothers." He also > >located Carl's father, turned out to be his neighbor. Goerman was given > >full access to papers that the family had. He concludes, "Carlos loves > >to play games with those foolish enough to play audience... Carl is > >described as a 'master leg-puller'. Once he purportedly feigned a heart > >attack while working ... ". In a letter to his parents, Carl admits > >annotating Jessup's book, by himself. > > I wonder why Moore had such a hard time tracking down information on > Allende? > > >"In his letters to Jessup, Carl does not mention the name or number > >of his experimental ship. In Moore and Berlitz' book he states, "It > >was the DE-173." > > That doesn't necessarily mean anything. > > >"It is clear that the legend of Carl Allen/Carlos Allende is mostly > >fiction. If someone were to write a book telling the *real* story, > >its title might be 'The Philadelphia Hoax: Project Gullibility." > > *Mostly* fiction. But what about the story of Davis and Huse at the > beginning of Moore & Berlitz's book? They apparently heard the story > through some route other than Allende. > > -- > * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | I'm in a groove now > Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | -- or is it a rut? > 37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | > Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Rush, "Face Up") > > From sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) Mon Jan 13 11:22:53 1992 > Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!rutgers!noao!arizona!arizona.edu!mvb.saic.com!network.ucsd.edu!pacbell.com!decwrl!amdcad!netcomsv!sheaffer > From: sheaffer@netcom.COM (Robert Sheaffer) > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > Subject: Re: Philadelphia Experiment? > Message-ID: <1992Jan13.162253.29839sheaffer@netcom.COM> > Date: 13 Jan 92 16:22:53 GMT > References: <1992Jan11.002031.7380sheaffer@netcom.COM> > Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) > Lines: 25 > > In article jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes: > > > >I wonder why Moore had such a hard time tracking down information on > >Allende? > > What kind of "mystery" would he have if the information was obtainable > so easily? > > > >>"In his letters to Jessup, Carl does not mention the name or number > >>of his experimental ship. In Moore and Berlitz' book he states, "It > >>was the DE-173." > > > >That doesn't necessarily mean anything. > > Originally, Allende *didn't know* any names of any ships. Later, he > did. Possibly understanible, but sounds fishy. > > > -- > > Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - sheaffer@netcom.com > > Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized! > > "Simply follow nature, Rousseau declares. Sade, laughing, > grimly agrees." - Camille Paglia, "Sexual Personae" > > From hackney@wotan.compaq.com (Greg Hackney) Wed Jan 15 09:52:36 1992 > Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!rutgers!cs.utexas.edu!wotan.compaq.com!hackney > From: hackney@wotan.compaq.com (Greg Hackney) > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > Subject: Re: Philadelphia Experiment? > Message-ID: <1992Jan15.145236.3218@wotan.compaq.com> > Date: 15 Jan 92 14:52:36 GMT > References: <1992Jan08.013037.1224@pfm.rmt.sub.org> <30511@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> > Organization: Compaq > Lines: 35 > > In article jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) writes: > > > In all the versions I've heard, except one mentioned briefly in Moore & > > Berlitz's book, it was the destroyer escort "Eldridge". > > The Eldridge was sold to Greece > > I think it's still in service. > > In article <10338@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> tarl@sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter) writes: > > > According to the 1990/1991 Combat Fleets, Greek Navy frigate D67 > > "Panthir" is ex-Eldridge DE 173. Transfered from US navy to Greece > > in 1951, still in service at this time though "thoroughly obsolete". > > It's one of four ships in it's class, along with D01 Aetos (ex-Ebert > > DE 768), D31 Hierax (ex-Slater, DE 766), D54 Leon (ex-Garfield Thomas, > > DE 193). > > In article ewf2@ra.msstate.edu (Eric "JUICE" Fritzius) writes: > > > almost all material on the Eldridge was classified > > and as far as I know remains so to this day. > > Was the USS Eldridge pre-maturely dry docked for a ship of it's class > and age, say in comparison to it's other 3 classmates? Was it sold > as an individual ship or a package sale of a class of ships. > > Was the ship indeed declared off limits and top secret in it's dry docked state. > > Were the names of the crew members of the Eldridge top secret, and are they > still so? If so, is this a standard practice for ships of this class and age? > > Were there any reports of a loss of crew memebers in action? How many of the > original crew members are still alive to talk about it. > > How about the names and status of the crew members of the alleged > observation ship (the Idaho?) ? Also still secret ? > > From jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) Thu Jan 16 13:20:48 1992 > Path: aramis.rutgers.edu!rutgers!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms > From: jms@vanth.UUCP (Jim Shaffer) > Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors > Subject: Re: Philadelphia Experiment? > Message-ID: > Date: 16 Jan 92 18:20:48 GMT > References: <1992Jan08.013037.1224@pfm.rmt.sub.org> <30511@mentor.cc.purdue.edu> <1992Jan15.145236.3218@wotan.compaq.com> > Organization: The Search For TERRESTRIAL Intelligence > Lines: 16 > > In article <1992Jan15.145236.3218@wotan.compaq.com> hackney@wotan.compaq.com (Greg Hackney) writes: > >In article <10338@lectroid.sw.stratus.com> tarl@sw.stratus.com (Tarl Neustaedter) writes: > > > >> According to the 1990/1991 Combat Fleets, Greek Navy frigate D67 > >> "Panthir" is ex-Eldridge DE 173. Transfered from US navy to Greece > >> in 1951, still in service at this time though "thoroughly obsolete". > > That article got lost somewhere on the way to me. I'm curious as to > whether it was always called the "Panthir", because Moore & Berlitz say it > was called the "Leon". > > -- > * From the disk of: | jms@vanth.uucp | I'm in a groove now > Jim Shaffer, Jr. | uunet!cbmvax!vanth!jms | -- or is it a rut? > 37 Brook Street | jms%vanth@cbmvax.commodore.com | > Montgomery, PA 17752 | 72750.2335@compuserve.com | (Rush, "Face Up") > : 2. Does anybody have informations about several : "Anti-Gravity"-Experiments performed by US : Navy and Airforce during World War II? Any : Informations about "Project Winterhaven"? : Any Help in those cases 1 and 2 is very : welcome. Names, dates, theories, adresses, : clues - every hint in those cases is very, : very welcome. : Please answer in this group or directly by : e-mail, or send fax to +49-8121-46587. : Volker Everts, Munich -- * Will sit by a pool and relax and have fun for money. * Hey... it's going to work someday... -- David Jonsson Voice&Fax +46-18-24 51 52 P.O Box 353 Postal giro 499 40 54-7 S-751 06 UPPSALA Internet E-mail t89djo@student.tdb.uu.se SWEDEN ++++++Cold EMISSION before the end of the century++++++